My IVF Cycle Failed – What Went Wrong? Question #18: My Fertility Clinic Reports a High Success Rate – How Could I Have 2 Failed Cycles In A Row?
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This is no. 18 in a series of answers to common questions about failed IVF.
While it is true that IVF failure can be due to preventable factors, it is as important to understand that optimal medical care does not always equate with an optimal outcome. Nowhere is this concept more apparent than when it comes to IVF.
Most of the factors that affect IVF outcome are not even properly defined as yet, let alone solutions having been found. Thus, when confronted with IVF failures, it is important for patients to have a working knowledge of the factors that influence outcome.
I like to equate successful IVF with what happens when a seed is planted in soil; a good outcome is predicated on a “competent” seed being planted in a receptive soil. With IVF, the seed is the embryo, and the soil is the uterine lining. It follows that the transfer of a good quality embryo into a non-receptive uterine lining, or an “incompetent” embryo transferred to a receptive uterus won’t yield a successful outcome. Thus, the variables that influence IVF outcome are those that influence egg/embryo “competence” and those that affect endometrial receptivity. And when IVF fails, it is almost always due to one or more such variables being abnormal.
It so happens that in at least 70-80% of cases, it is embryo “competence” (the seed) that will determine IVF outcome. In the remaining 20-30% of cases, it is endometrial receptivity. IVF failure will manifest as failed fertilization, arrested embryo development, failed implantation or pregnancy loss (early or late).
Research has shown that the majority of eggs are chromosomally abnormal (aneuploid) from the get-go, and are thus “incompetent”. Such eggs will invariably produce incompetent embryos that cannot propagate a healthy pregnancy. As women get older, the incidence of egg aneuploidy increases dramatically from about 1 in 2 in younger women (under 35) up to at least 9 out of 10 by the mid 40’s. That is precisely why it becomes more difficult to conceive with advancing age and why the miscarriage rate also increases correspondingly.
Outside of the effect of age, the protocol of ovarian stimulation can also impact egg “competence”. Older women (over 39 years), women with diminished ovarian reserve, and women with polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS) tend to have high biological Luteinizing Hormone (LH) activity which results in increased ovarian male hormone (androgen) production. This can compromise egg development and increase the risk of aneuploidy, and thus negatively impact reproductive performance. That is precisely why it is so important to minimize this LH/androgen effect by individualizing the protocol of ovarian stimulation in such cases, and to time the administration of hCG precisely.
When it comes to implantation dysfunction there are primarily 3 factors to be considered. The first is the anatomical integrity of the uterine cavity. In other words, there should be no surface lesions protruding through the endometrial lining. Such lesions (polyps, scarring, fibroids) will create a local reaction that will compromise embryo implantation.
The second is that the uterine lining must be thick enough to allow for adequate proliferation of the embryo’s root system. Linings thinner than 9 mm at the time of egg retrieval (or at the initiation of progesterone administration in embryo recipient cycles) are suboptimal, and an endometrial thickness of < 8 mm is grossly inadequate. Personally, I do not even transfer embryos in such cases, preferring to freeze and bank them for future dispensation at a time that the uterine lining has been restored through hormonal therapy and vaginal Viagra suppositories.
Third and finally, there is the issue of immunologic acceptance by the endometrium of the implanting embryo. Details regarding immunologic implantation dysfunction can be found elsewhere on this site.
Hopefully, the above information will explain why and how IVF fails and indeed also how it is possible to experience several failures in a row without necessarily anything having been done wrong. But when this happens it is important to evaluate and address all the disparate variables that can affect egg/embryo “competence” and uterine receptivity before moving to another attempt. Simply stated, the time to stop IVF is when there is no remediable explanation for failure.
The most distressing of all is when patients are encouraged to just simply keep on trying until IVF becomes successful. It is almost unconscionable for doctors to lead patients on in this way. Unfortunately, as an example, due to either arrogance or ignorance, a patient will be told by a doctor that he/she simply does not believe in immunologic factors as being influential in IVF outcome.
My advice in such cases is to respectfully request that the physician describe the workings of implantation immunology and then explain what it is about the concept of immunologic implantation dysfunction that he/she disagrees with. Most will not be able to do so for a simple reason – namely that reproductive immunology is a highly complex subject, possibly being even more complex than ART itself – and most reproductive endocrinologists do not take the time to understand it properly, preferring to present platitudes rather than solutions.
27 Responses to “My IVF Cycle Failed – What Went Wrong? Question #18: My Fertility Clinic Reports a High Success Rate – How Could I Have 2 Failed Cycles In A Row?”
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I'm getting ready to start my 2nd cycle of IVF in November. My RE has a great success rate 65%, but unfortunately I landed in the 35%. Anyhow, I'm 29 with mild endo and husband (28) has 6% morphology (Kruger strict). We tried a ganirelex antagonist protocol. 24 eggs retrieved, 20 mature, 17 fertilized with ICSI, none made it to blasts or froze and they had significant fragmentation. We transferred 2 day 5 morulas and obviously this didn't work. We are switching to a long lupron protocol and my RE is looking into using a bromocriptine-rebound cycle as well. I feel like after having 17 embryos fail to make it to blast, we are pretty hopeless. What do you think?
Thanks for any input!
MK
Dear Dr. Sher – I really appreciate your blog. I'm one of those 40+ women who has lots of technical questions and your blog answers many. When we get to the ivf phase of our journey, I will definitely keep your practice in mind. Thanks for the straight talk.
You are very kind!
Thank you so much!
Geoff Sher
…"The most distressing of all is when patients are encouraged to just simply keep on trying until IVF becomes successful. It is almost unconscionable for doctors to lead patients on in this way. Unfortunately, as an example, due to either arrogance or ignorance, a patient will be told by a doctor that he/she simply does not believe in immunologic factors as being influential in IVF outcome…"
Ummmmm were you sitting in my RE's office recording what she said to us after our 3rd, 4th and 5th pregnancy loss between 3.5-5 weeks??
This is exactly why I called Dr. Peters and will only proceed with SIRM from here on out- I was simply disgusted by my RE's ignorance AND arrogance.
What can I say except thanks for sharing!
Geoff Sher
Hello Dr ,
During Egg Retrival : endometrial thickness of 8.5MM
11/09 : ET Done
11/18 : 1st Beta HCG : 86
The morning of the 1st Beta we took a HPT and it came back Negative.
11/20 : 2nd Beta HCG : 218
The morning of the 2nd Beta we took a HPT and it came back Positive.
11/26 : 3rd Beta was 6 days from the 2nd Beta : 2385
UltraSound done and we didnt see an Gestational Sac.
The docs requested for another Ultra Sound from another centre and also briefed us about ectopic pregnency , we went there in the evening and same result , there was no gestational SAC inside or outside the uterine walls.
11/26 : Black Discharge along with some blood during the night , a little heavier than spotting and lower than periods.No pain or cramping any where , discomfort due to ultrasound scan though.
11/27 : 4th Beta was 7days from the 2nd Beta : 2024 .
No clue whats going on !
Is this a Chemical pregnency , Can it be Ectopic …can it be determined this early ?
Is a Reduced Beta mean that it was not Ectopic and we have lost the pregnency ?
It could be either a chemical pregnancy or a tubal (ectopic pregnancy). You need to be on the lookout for sudden abdominal pain, Rt shoulder tip pain and light headedness. Your beta should be repeated every 2-4 days to make sure it is dropping and only when it is zero can you be complacent. Your Re should repeat an examination and ultrasound in a week.
Please keep me in the loop!
Good luck and G-d bless
Geoff Sher
My next webinar in about 1 week will be on this very topic. Go to the home page of http://www.haveababy.com and sign up for it. It will be enlightening …I promise.
Geoff Sher
Hello my name is merry and i had a failed ivf cycle. My age is 40 years and i had 4 follicles good size 15mm, 16mm, 16mm, 17mm and the other 7 smaller size follicles. My doctor gave me 350 units of gondal F for 13 days and on 13th day i had ultrascan and my follicles were sizes, 15, 16, 16 and 17mm. my doctor told to take an extra day of gondal F so that my follicle size increases, but after taking one more day they did not increase. My nurse told to take another day gonadal F because the doctor is not available on sunday for egg retrival. So i took another day gonadal F. finally i took 2 days extra Gonadal F with out increasing the size of the follicles. Ultimately my embryos arrested on day 4, so failed ivf. can you please tell me what is the reason for the failure of ivf
It seems clear that you have diminished ovarian reserve. In such cases the use of a very strategic and individualized protocol of stimulation is central to proper egg development. Remember, ultimately it is mostly egg quality that determines embryo “competency”.
Go to the home page on this blog and from there (via the search bar), find the article I wrote on November 22nd 20o10 entitled “An Individualized Approach to Ovarian Stimulation for IVF”.
If you wish, call 800-780-7437 and set up a telephone or Skype consultation with me so we can discuss your case in detail.
Geoff Sher
Hello doctor sher,
I can not do skype consultation or on telophone because I live in Australia. My actual age is 41.6 years. I am thinking to go for second IVF cycle. please give me your advice whether to do second ivf cycle or not.
I am a pcos patient with thin BMI is 22.5 regular menstrual cycle. i am on metformin 1000mg per day. regular ovaluation cycles. I am trying to concieve from the past 2 1/2 years only. I found my partner very late in my life. I concieved naturally last year but miscarried at 6 weeks.
can you give your advice to go for second ivf or just try naturally.
Sorry Pinky,
I simply do not know enough about your case to advise you whether to try again.
However, if you were here, I would probably recommend “Staggered IVF” with “embryo banking” as an option. See below!
Go to http://www.IVFauthority.com and when you get to the home page find the “search bar”, type in the following subjects into the bar 1. “Staggered IVF” 2. “Embryo Banking” and “Egg Donation”.
Geoff Sher
Hello Dr Sher
Thanks for the very informative sessions. Just went through our 6th failed ivf cycle. At the 4th cycle after pgd (and after switching clinics and RE) we found derangement in all the embryos. We didn’t do a transfer in this cycle as we opted for the first time to try to go to blastocysts. All embryos arrested. The RE suggested that it is a sperm issue considering that we had to do a TESE each cycle. For the 5th and 6th cycle we used donor sperm. I did all test possible including HSG, laparoscopy, all blood tests seem within range, healthy uterus etc. However the RE is bewildered as although we do have good looking blasts at day 5 / 6 with good grades, these blasts grow at an irregular progression. It got explained to us that some of the embryos look as if they arrest in day 2 or day 3 and then all of a sudden pick up speed and make up for lost time. And for this to happen twice in a row we think it is more than a coincidence. Have you encountered anything like this? For the last cycle we put in 3 grade A blasts. We have another 3 blasts frozen which we have sent for CGH but this is going to be purely a diagnostic test. At a loss what to think. I’m at 32 years old. Could it be an egg issue? Our RE does not believe that it has to do with immunological issues even though I have not tested for them. Looking forward to receive your insight. Thanks
At 32Y it is unlikely that you have an egg issue. Also (subject to a thorough review of your husband’s sperm parameters and an SCSA (see the article on SCSA elsewhere on this blog) that using your husband’s sperm should be off limits. To me the focus should be on the protocol for ovarian stimulation.
Indeed, sometimes embryos that develop slowly in the first 2-3 days suddenly take off and develop to blastocysts but in my experience if such blastocysts are derived from day 3 embryos that were <5 cells divided, they do not do well and are often aneuploid. The blastocyst CGH tests being done will be very revealing in this regard.
Please go to the home page of this blog, (www.IVFauthority.com). When you get there look for a “search bar” in the upper right hand column. Then type in the following subjects into the bar, click and this will take you to all the relevant articles I posted there.
1. “An Individualized Approach to Ovarian stimulation” (posted on November 22nd, 2010)
2. “Ovarian Stimulation in IVF: Why is it important to down-regulate LH?”
3. “Agonist/Antagonist Conversion Protocol”
4.“A personalized, stepwise approach to IVF at SIRM”; Parts 1 & 2 (posted March, 2012)
5. “IVF success: Factors that influence outcome”
6. “Staggered IVF”
7.“Embryo Banking”
Consider calling 800-780-7437 or 702-699-7437 to arrange a telephone or Skype consultation (free of charge to those who reside in the United States or Canada) with me so we can discuss your case in detail.. While an audiovisual (Skype) interaction is much more personable and preferable than a discussion by telephone, either will suffice.
Geoff Sher
Dear Dr.Sher,
My age is 29 and My husband is 31. We are trying to conceive for more than 2 years. I had 2 failed IUI with clomid. With one IUI, I got pregnant but it was diagnosed as ectopic pregnancy. My husband’s morphology is only 1% and so we tried to do 1 fresh IVF cycle, which also failed. My doctor has transferred 1 blastocyst embryo on 5th day of grade 3AA. We still have 1 frozen 6 day embryo. I am going to schedule an appointment with my doctor. But I need your opinion about what points I should discuss with my doctor. What could be the reason for failure of my 1st IVF. My doctor also did Saline sonogram and Hystroscopy to see into my uterus and the report was normal. Even I have hsg done which sows my tubes are open. Please suggest me what other test I should do before going to frozen embryo transfer.
Thank You,
Palak Shah
tHANK YOU!
The chance of a baby,with 1 blastocyst (not-genetically tested), even at your age is only about 1:3. You therefore may just have been unlucky.
Contact me with the FET outcome.
Good luck!
Geoff Sher
Dr. Sher,
We would like to get your opinion on what to do next. My husband and I have been trying to get pregnant for the last 2.5 years. I am 34 and my husband is 35. All tests and bloodwork to date have been normal (HSG, saline sono, AMH, sperm analysis and DNA fragmentation). We’ve had 4 failed IUIs. We just completed our first IVF cycle (12 eggs – 7 fertilized by ICSI, 4 fertilized naturally). We transferred 1 blast and froze 2 more. The result was negative. Given that we have never had a positive pregnancy test should we look into implantation disorder or just go ahead with FET?
Thank you.
I am so impressed with the manner in which patients are wising up. Clearly if it is not likely to be the embryo it most likely is endometrial receptivity, i.e., endometrial thickness , uterine cavity contour or immunologic implantation factors. My bet is that it is the latter. I think you might benefit from my input so I invite you to call 800-780-7437 or 702-699-7437 to arrange a Skype (or telephone) consultation (free of charge to those who reside in the United States or Canada) with me so we can discuss your case in detail.. While an audiovisual (Skype) interaction is much more personable and preferable than a discussion by telephone, either will suffice.
In the interim go to http://www.IVFauthority.com . When you get to home page, look for a “search bar” in the upper right hand corner. Type the following subjects into the bar, click on it and it will take you to all the relevant articles posted there.
1. “Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction” (posted on May, 10th and on May 16th respectively.
2. “Embryo Implantation………” (Part-1 and Part- 2—-Posted August 2012)
3. “Traveling for IVF from Out of State/Country– The Process at SIRM-Las Vegas” (posted on March, 21st 2012)
4.“A personalized, stepwise approach to IVF at SIRM”; Parts 1 & 2 (posted March, 2012)
5. “IVF success: Factors that influence outcome”
I look forward to helping you in your quest to have a baby.
Geoff Sher
Dear Dr. Sher,
I love all the complete information you give.
I am 41.10 months. I have multifollicular condition, never had issuses with my ovaries, still regular period, thick lining in uterus.
IVF # 1 failed transfer. 8 embryos tested array cgh. Biopsy on DAY 3 after fertilization.RE says biopsy on polar body of egg( I don´t understand if after fertilization it is an embryo not an egg?)
Should I go next time for a more individualized protocol with mild IVF instead?
Of course (for reasons described in this blog) the method of ovarian stimulation used is an important consideration…especially in older women and those with diminished ovarian reserve. However, failure to succeed following the transfer of chromosomally normal embryos (CGH-tested) is a definitive indication to look for a possible implantation dysfunction (often immunologic). Please go to the home page of this blog, (www.IVFauthority.com). When you get there look for a “search bar” in the upper right hand column. Then type in the following subjects into the bar, click and this will take you to all the relevant articles I posted there.
1. “An Individualized Approach to Ovarian stimulation” (posted on November 22nd, 2010)
2. “Ovarian Stimulation in IVF: Why is it important to down-regulate LH?”
3. “Agonist/Antagonist Conversion Protocol”
4. “Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction” (posted on May, 10th and on May 16th respectively.
5. “Embryo Implantation………” (Part-1 and Part- 2—-Posted August 2012)
6. “Traveling for IVF from Out of State/Country– The Process at SIRM-Las Vegas” (posted on March, 21st 2012)
7.“A personalized, stepwise approach to IVF at SIRM”; Parts 1 & 2 (posted March, 2012)
8. “IVF success: Factors that influence outcome”
9. “Staggered IVF”
10.“Embryo Banking”
You should seriously consider calling 800-780-7437 or 702-699-7437 to arrange a telephone or Skype consultation (free of charge to those who reside in the United States or Canada) with me so we can discuss your case in detail.. While an audiovisual (Skype) interaction is much more personable and preferable than a discussion by telephone, either will suffice.
Geoff Sher
Dr. Sher,
Thank you so much for your quick answer!!!
I didn´t write all the details properly. The transfer didn´t happen because they told me all embryos had chromosomal abnormalities. Apparently a biopsy was performed on a polar body on the embryo on day 3, retrieving only maternal DNA, and an array cgh was performed. On the basis of the results the embryos were discarded. I am trying to get information about the test and the results so far without any luck.
Without the information I feel very uncertain. May I call you next week? is there any time more convenient for you? I am currently living in Madrid but in July will be moving to NYC.
Thank you again for your kindness!!!
Consider calling 8702-699-7437 to arrange a telephone or Skype consultation with me so we can discuss your case in detail.. While an audiovisual (Skype) interaction is much more personable and preferable than a discussion by telephone, either will suffice.
Geoff Sher
Dear Dr. Sher, this is the most informative website in this area I have found. Thank you so much. I was wondering if you think I could have an egg quality issue based on these 1st IVF failure stats:
Age – 35, DH – 33
Sperm normal, all my tests came back normal except elevated TSH and disagreement if I might have sublinical PCOS (all my blood glucose came back normal.
Was on BCP for a month, ending with crossover Lupron
75IU of Follistem, 75IU of Menopur, 5 ml Lupron
Triggered when had 2 mature follicles, 8 at 16, 1 at 14
13 eggs retrieved, 12 fertilized, 2 (early stage) blastocysts (were supposed to be further along by day 5), said 1/2 day behind were transferred BFN.
Nothing to freeze…
Just wondering what this could be possibly pointing too…
thx so much for your perspective
Of course, the protocol of stimulation is central to any IVF cycle and even all the more so if you indeed have PCOS. Another important consideration is whether you are on course to develop hypothyroidism because in most cases this condition is due to an autoimmune cause. And in such cases, regardless of vwhether there is or is not manifest clinical hypothyroidism, about 50% will also have a concommitant immunologic implantation problem linked to NK cell activation.
isPlease go to the home page of this blog, (www.IVFauthority.com). When you get there look for a “search bar” in the upper right hand column. Then type in the following subjects into the bar, click and this will take you to all the relevant articles I posted there.
1. “Thyroid Autoimmune disese and IVF”
2. “An Individualized Approach to Ovarian stimulation” (posted on November 22nd, 2010)
3. “Ovarian Stimulation in IVF: Why is it important to down-regulate LH?”
4. “Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction” (posted on May, 10th and on May 16th respectively.
5. “Embryo Implantation………” (Part-1 and Part- 2—-Posted August 2012)
6.“A personalized, stepwise approach to IVF at SIRM”; Parts 1 & 2 (posted March, 2012)
7. “IVF success: Factors that influence outcome”
If for any reason this cycle does not pan out for you, you might consider calling 800-780-7437 or 702-699-7437 to arrange a telephone or Skype consultation (free of charge to those who reside in the United States or Canada) with me so we can discuss your case in detail.. While an audiovisual (Skype) interaction is much more personable and preferable than a discussion by telephone, either will suffice.
Geoff Sher
Hi Dr Sher
I just came across your website and have spent hours reading through it, it’s excellent and full of information. Thank you.
I would be grateful if you could advise on my situation
Age of myself and husband 31
AMH 10, on Eltroxin and Metformin (due to high HBA1C – dont have PCOS). Sperm normal apart from 45% motility, DNA fragmentation 20%
ICSI #1, Long protocol, 300 Gonal F with Luveris, 9 eggs, 8 fertilised, 2 early blasts transferred day 5. Negative result. Nothing to freeze
ICSI # 2, Long protocol, 225 Gonal F with Luveris, 8 eggs, 5 fertilised, 1 blast and 1 morula transferred day 5. Negative result. Nothing to freeze
I was on full immune support, Clexane, steroids, Intralipds (borderline anti nuclear antibodies and slightly high CD19+5)and we are still getting negative result. We have been told eggs and sperm look good, embryos look good so don’t know where to go from here. Do you think we could have a quality issue? Could we have issues with chromosomes or compatibility?
Thanks so much in advance for your help
I really think I could help you but we would need to talk. Please go to the home page of this blog, (www.IVFauthority.com). When you get there look for a “search bar” in the upper right hand column. Then type in the following subjects into the bar, click and this will take you to all the relevant articles I posted there.
1. “An Individualized Approach to Ovarian stimulation” (posted on November 22nd, 2010)
2. “Ovarian Stimulation in IVF: Why is it important to down-regulate LH?”
3. “Agonist/Antagonist Conversion Protocol”
4. “Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction” (posted on May, 10th and on May 16th respectively.
5. “Embryo Implantation………” (Part-1 and Part- 2—-Posted August 2012)
6. “Traveling for IVF from Out of State/Country– The Process at SIRM-Las Vegas” (posted on March, 21st 2012)
7.“A personalized, stepwise approach to IVF at SIRM”; Parts 1 & 2 (posted March, 2012)
8. “IVF success: Factors that influence outcome”
9. “Staggered IVF”
Consider calling 800-780-7437 or 702-699-7437 to arrange a Skype consultation (free of charge to those who reside in the United States or Canada) with me so we can discuss your case in detail.
Geoff Sher
Dear Dr Sher,
How long should one wait between IVF cyles. My first cycle failed and was wondering when I could start again.
Thanks
I recommend at least 1 full resting cycle.
Geoff Sher